For seven months the house of Israel will be burying them, in order to cleanse the land. It is expedient that we go away.following Him out. We must be faithful to the context which is Israel in the last days. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdom of the Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever" (Revelation 11:15b). Not to a rotting carcase but to the living body that rose from the dead and is alive for evermore! This is symbolically represented in two examples. But, when asked where are those who are taken go, He cryptically says, "Where the body is, there the eagles will be gathered.". By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. I will answer it myself, if no one else has a satisfactory answer, but I would like to keep it open, just in case. After He has defeated the nations of the world who attempted to annihilate Israel, He will judge everyone who survived Armageddon. If so this might help explain the 1.1 million non-combatants killed in the judgment that fell around 70ad and why Revelation refers to the Jews hiding in the rocks of the hills, wishing that they had died in the war. The words taken and left have a literal meaning. This is how it is in the parable of the wheat and tares (Mt 13:24-30, 36-43). together; one will be taken and one will be left. Calculating probabilities from d6 dice pool (Degenesis rules for botches and triggers). But Israel will know that the Tribulation; the 70th week of Daniel chapter 9, has come when all over the world people disappear. Therefore, they are not describing the rapture. Why are non-Western countries siding with China in the UN? gathered together. Who is the one left? expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter The Greek is paralambano. The word for eagle occurs 4 times in the New Testament and always from the same Greek word. could be that the taken are the people who were steadfast in their faith in the face of danger, so saving their lives for eternity. We know it is the Rapture of the Church because we have Pauls epistles that explain it. Luke-21:25-34-kjv. Thank you for contributing. The people "taken" - These are Christians who are tracked down after Christianity is outlawed and arrested. The Lord will not destroy the righteous with the wicked.so we must depart and follow Jesus out. Luke 17:34-37 ESV - 34 I tell you, in that night there will be two in one bed. to them, and shut to the door. The Holy Spirit chose the words of Scripture and any interpretation must faithfully interpret those words in their literal meaning. things to come. will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy A lot seems to be happening in a very short scope of time. The verse in the New American Standard Bible (NASB) and the New King James Version Bible (NKJV) reads as follows, I tell you, on that night there will be two in one bed; one will be taken and the other will be left. 35 There will be two women grinding together. replied to them, Where the dead body[e] is, there the vultures will When Jesus referred to the days of the Son of Man, He was speaking about His second coming, that is, the second coming of Christ. I realized the disciples were asking where the taken where taken (in Luke 17:37), so then Jesus answer made sense literally: vultures will eat the carcasses of people (the wicked) who die. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. desolation is near. " "'" Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. The NKJV translates the Greek word duoas two men in Luke 17:34, but the NASB does not. They will seek to prevent others in believing the revealed Word of Truth and will persecute those who will receive it in faith. Luke makes allusion to the same people but instead of "taken" (as appears in the NASB of Matthew) Luke mentions the "destruction" of those at the time of the flood (Luke 17:27, NASB). This will "torment" them. Luke 17:21. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the Ezekiel 39:12. Luke 17 provides further powerful proof of the order of gatherings, as if the harmony of several passages so far were not enough. Points 10 and 11 (Luke 17:34-35) say that "one will be taken and the other left" and this is the Rapture. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. 28 "Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot: they were eating and ptma G4430 is coprse, caracass. of Man is revealed. They all deal with the same subject matter, the coming of His Kingdom, not the rapture. We who believe must ARISE and go from here and snatch others from the coming fire as well. In other words, an equally legitimate interpretation of the disciples' question is that the disciples wanted to know where the events Jesus was telling them about would take place. We are to also not look behind to return evil for their evil that will certainly come out of their mouths as one leaves the churches of the unbelievers. Jesus indicated that the people taken will be killed when the disciples asked "taken where?" For a more complete explanation, please see Judgment of the Nations, also called the Sheep and Goat Judgment. Jesus Second Coming is for those who have believed in Him for the forgiveness of their sins. So it is not a valid argument to reason that because Jesus was speaking to Jewish disciples before Pentecost He could not be referring to the Rapture of the Church. Matthew 24:40-41 (NASB). c. 15. p. 90, 91. Each Book adds a little more detail to the questions His Disciples asked of Jesus about His coming Kingdom "when . Other Translations for Luke 17:34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shal be taken, the other shall be left. Now, do Luke 17:34-37 and Matthew 24:40-41 refer to the rapture? Doesnt Luke 17:34-36 support the secret rapture belief? (35) Two women shall be grinding In the gospel of Matthew, we find that Jesus was also discussing His second coming just before Matthew 24:40. An act of judgment. for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you. THE RAPTURE, A SECRET UNTIL JESUS CHRIST REVEALED IT TO PAUL Attempting to argue against those who say Jesus never preached about the Rapture, people will take Jesus' words in Matthew 24:40-41 and Luke 17:34-36 about individuals being taken away, and make them apply to people being taken to heaven in the Rapture. Then, Jesus gives another example for the same concept Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. English Standard Version All Sermons Bible Studies Devotionals Prayers. the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. (34-35) cannot refer to the rapture as it is commonly taught, which is said to take place before the Second Coming. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. They will rise like eagles ascending on the hot air draft until we disappear from sight through the door of heaven forever with the Lord! There are two things that must agree in the interpretation of any passage of Scripture. (15) And when the morning arose, then 1) Jesus did speak of the Rapture and of the Church before He died even though the Disciple could not understand it. He said to them, "Where the corpse is, there the vultures will gather. That angels fly is derived from Dan 9:21: while I was still in prayer, Gabriel, the man I had seen in the earlier vision, came to me in swift flight about the time of the evening sacrifice. Perhaps it means that the ones taken will be disenfranchised, their goods confiscated and their rights terminated as a "felony". Luke 17:34 and Matthew 24:40 both describe events that will occur at the Goat and Sheep Judgment. Another example given by Jesus ( a few verses earlier) was that of Lot, who was "taken along" by the angel and the others were abandoned. Any duration. Luke 17:34 describes what will happen after the judgment. How to prove that the supernatural or paranormal doesn't exist? [Jer 9:22 NKJV] 22 Speak, "Thus says the LORD: 'Even the carcasses of men shall fall as refuse on the open field, Like cuttings after the harvester, And no one shall gather [them].' 40 Then two will be in the field; one Revelation 19:21 KJV (21) And the remnant were slain with the sword The Greek word duo simply means two two of anything. I will not talk much with you: **for the prince of this world cometh, These two signs will occur at the same time and will send an unmistakable message to 144,000 Jewish men who will instantly turn to Jesus Christ. Israel were the sheep in the fold but the Church was a future flock of Jews and Gentiles, all one in Christ. Saints: being, the Vultures will gather! This is "the Supper of the Great God" (verse 17) and "the Marriage . I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left. giving in marriage, until the day Noah entered the ark, 39 and they People who have gladly taken the mark of the beast and people who are of no concern to the anti Christ. It is taken to mean that one day believers will be secretly "raptured" away and the rest will be "left behind." What's the problem here, you ask? I dont believe that Luke 17 and Matt 24 are parallel passages. 2) The Gospels must be interpreted as addressed to Israel and not the Church because a new dispensation of the Church had not begun at the time. One will be taken the other left (Mt 24:40-41). How to follow the signal when reading the schematic? again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a But the door of our mouths is to remain shut . bear them now. I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed: One will be taken and the other left. Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. The passage in Luke 17 appears to be parallel to Matthew 24. The Greek word "a-e-toi" ( ) can be translated as "eagles" as well as "vultures," however in terms of context the word "eagles" is by far the better - as in NKJV. presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: The short answer is that in the narratives of Matt 24, Lk 21, and Mk 13, Jesus is speaking of the siege of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Temple by the armies of Rome. In both passages Jesus is talking about the end of the age which is the 7 years of Great Tribulation immediately before Jesus comes. the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of I would like to comment on the Lords words in Luke 17:34-37 and Matthew 24:40-41. So how do we interpret the words of Jesus when He said that in one night there would a global disappearance of individuals from bed, the field and at the mill? To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. We must hear the command and ARISE (just like Lot was commanded to "ARISE" and go from Sodom) from the dead body of unbelievers and let us go from here.their churches. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? Who is being taken in Matthew 24:40-41? Rapture Doesnt Luke 17:34-36 support the secret rapture belief? be the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left. It would make sense that those taken will be devoured. In verses 20-21, of Luke's account, Jesus warns the disciples saying, But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its All Rights Reserved. They will "weary" themselves to get you to speak evil back so that they are justified in their own eyes. Luke 17:34-35, The Fate of the Raptured Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2014 in Bible Commentary | 1 comment I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. The Greek word for left is aphiemi which literally means to send and is used of a man putting away his wife in divorce (1 Corinthians 7:11-13). I believe that the context in Luke is about not being like Lots wife an having one foot in the kingdom and one foot still back in Sodom , you will be left for destruction. or 'There!' days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and Literalising the scripture with a carnal mentality, wud just lead one astray to his own peril. Remember Lots wife!". Does God expect me to live with a physically abusive spouse. In this passage it is even clearer that Jesus was referring to His second coming because He said the coming of the Son of Man. This means the illustration of the two men in the field or the two women grinding is not about the rapture. Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and with a loud voice he called to all the birds that fly directly overhead, "Come, gather for the great supper of God, to eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all men, both free and slave, both small and great." The birds come to pluck out their eyes as they eat their carcasses: [Isa 5:25 NKJV] 25 Therefore the anger of the LORD is aroused against His people; He has stretched out His hand against them And stricken them, And the hills trembled. He also expands on this here by saying "Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything. Posted on Aug 19, 2017 I believe you are referring to Luke 17:34-36. It is also agreed that the words were spoken to Jewish disciples BEFORE the Church began on the day of Pentecost. In other words, they will experience the glory and not the gory! , Jesus prophesies the events immediately preceding His return to this earth and the resurrection of Gods faithful people: "For as the lightning that flashes out of one part under heaven shines to the other part under heaven, so also the Son of Man will be in His dayTwo women will be grinding together: the one will be taken and the other left. Jesus' reply clearly indicates judgment. We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup. The Comforter is the Spirit of Truth that shall comfort us as those we leave behind shall persecute us in their unbelief and wrath that we have left their church. the other left. sent us to destroy it. one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall The verb grinding is feminine. Luke 17:34 (NIV). Please see, Welcome and thank you for your contribution. And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together. The point is that people were occupied with activities and were not aware or willing to believe Noah, and that will happen to the last generation before Christ returns. Paralambano means to receive to ones self. mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh. 36 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. Search. , 37 "And they answered and said to Him, Where, Lord? So He said to (Matthew 24:40-42). away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. Many people use these words to support a concept called the rapture. Then He said to the disciples, "It is impossible that no offenses should come, but woe to him through whom they do come! 2 It would be better for him if a millstone [as large as one turned by a donkey] were hung around his neck and he were hurled into the sea, than . They are similar but Lukes account took place about a week before the Olivet Discourse. He calls himself , because he saves us by his death, and feeds us by his body, in his Church, Word, and sacraments . The time of Jacobs trouble (Jeremiah 30:7) will have arrived. " The question we are to consider in this paper is the interpretation of part of the Lords words in the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24:1-44) and the Lords answer to the Pharisees question, When the kingdom of God should come? in Luke17:20. It is my purpose to demonstrate that this is quite unscriptural. 35 Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left. 1 Jesus said to His disciples, "Stumbling blocks [temptations and traps set to lure one to sin] are sure to come, but woe (judgment is coming) to him through whom they come! Nevertheless He gave the Disciples three signs that would indicate when the Kingdom would be established. : [Pro 30:17 KJV] 17 The eye [that] mocketh at [his] father, and despiseth to obey [his] mother, the ravens of the valley shall pick it out, and the young eagles shall eat it. John 14:3). world. It is true that the parable of the Net catching good and bad fish teaches that the bad fish will be first cast away and the good fish will remain for the kingdom at the coming of the Lord. I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the In Luke 17, as you can see there is no indication whatsoever that the final separation of the saved and lost will be done in any secretive manner. Why have different Bibles translated the Greek word duodifferently? Please. When and where does the Goat and Sheep judgment occur? lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city. (34 I tell you, in that night there will be two in one bed. There is no doubt the disciples were referring to the ones taken. the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two Luke 17:34-37 (NIV84) 34 "I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. gather., 37 "And answering they *said to Him, Where, Lord? And He said to In Luke 17:37 who are taken, who are left behind and where are they taken? The word for taken in Luke 17:34 is the Greek word paralamban, which means to receive from and is the same Greek word that is used in John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. This seems to refer to Christ taking the church in the event of the rapture rather than some other sort of taken. Whereas the eagles in Matthew 24:28 gather around carcases, the eagles in Luke 17:37 gather around living bodies. The answer begins by understanding that duosimply means two. The word can refer to two men, two women, two children, a mother and a child, or two of anything. For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. Big difference. 37 "Where, Lord?" they asked. Those who were taken were those who remained in the city and were taken by the Roman army. Lot, Hast thou here any besides? What phrases give people the false idea that there will be a secret rapture? If the allusion is also literal, then these birds of prey may refer to Rev 19:17-18 and Ezek 39:17-20, but in such a case, the salient meaning of this passage in context would remain the same (i.e., judgment on earth evident from heaven). When the righteous (think about righteous Lot here) are taken out of the churches of the unbelievers, then the Wicked are revealed as they will speak evil words against the believers who leave. The reference to "one shall be taken and one left" is a reference to Zechariah's prediction that half of the people of Jerusalem would be taken away from Jerusalem as captives: [Zec 14:1-2 KJV] 1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. The body is the dead body of unbelievers we are to leave behind in order to follow Jesus. You welcome my friend. What Is the Difference Between 'Man' And 'Son of Man' in Num 23:19? (37) For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou If you interpret the passage to mean those taken are taken in judgment you have to change the meaning of words. of man is revealed. We are to leave it all behind (all of their church thoughts and ways) and take nothing of them with us so that we follow the Lord in His footsteps and suffer without the camp by the keeping of His sacrifice as they will persecute us for leaving them. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. The answer is no! (7) For the mystery of iniquity Jeremiah 9:23-24. When you get a chance, please take the. Two shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Next, Jesus said once again one will be taken and one left. not open the mouth to render evil for their evil. @majnemzdn Are you a riddle wrapped in an enigma..;>) ? housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it Jesus faulted the Pharisees for missing (ignoring) the signs of the times: His own day WAS the "last days"! Now lets read the verses you are referring to in (Luke 3436): I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other left. First, this teaching does not align with the separation of the sheep from the goats in Matthew 25:31-46. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. In addition, the goat nations who receive the mark of the Beast during the Tribulation, will be brought before the throne of Christs glory and be cast into everlasting fire (Matthew 25:31-46). Thats what modern versions have done but the Greek does not allow it! Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together (Luke17:37). The NASB simply translates the word as two. The words quoted in Luke 17 come after the Lord had answered the Pharisees question about the timing of the Kingdom of God. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the Donations to this ministry aretax-deductible. The ones who are taken are destroyed, just like the flood story of Noah, the flood came and took them all away, Matthew 24: 39. For those who believe that Luke 17:34-36 is not speaking of the rapture but of the judgment after Christ's Second Coming and that those taken are the wicked, I must point out a few things and conclude with a determining factor. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. To make things worse the NET Bible has added the word "dead" which is not in the Greek text. Any date. Thank God his saints will be taken at some point to their eternal reward (exactly when is a hotly contested point among eschatologists). They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Before the flood, some people were taken and some were left. They can rise to 10,000 feet almost out of sight. heaven, nor the Son,[a] but only the Father. Their own words will come back upon them to destroy them. Is the Goat and Sheep judgment also the White Throne judgment? Thank you for your response! them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath This is clearly speaking about the Church which though unrevealed at the time, was future in Gods plan. There is no rapture here. in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Where will these people who are received to Himself be taken? It can be just as you wrote or the elect in the wilderness Rev 12:6, Ez 20:35 eagles being angels. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur. 2) The Great Tribulation at Point 3. The ones taken were saved and the ones left were the ones destroyed by the flood. Jesus' word picture of one aspect of the Day of the Lord is gruesome, indeed, but at some point in human history there will be a holocaust of such unimaginable scope and scale that perhaps a third--or more--of the entire population of the world will be decimated (see Revelation 6:7-8 and 9:15-18). In the same way it would be wrong to say Jesus was not speaking of the Church when He spoke of other sheep which are not of this fold. Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his Who will be devoured? on me; (10) Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see What was the role of Timothy in the infant church? If they are not still on the earth then who is doing the burying? So what does it mean that "the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city"? The Lord shall consume them with the Spirit of His mouth as they will gnash their teeth in rage against what they hear Him saying and will speak all kinds of evil in resistance which will destroy themselves. Jesus didnt say it was the Rapture. Luke says, the Flood came and destroyed them all, and Matthew says, the Flood came and took them all away. To be taken was to be destroyed, or die. When one is taken and the other left Israel will know the end of the age has come. It is described in Matthew 25:31-46. Marayong NSW 2148 And the rest were slain by the sword that came from the mouth of him who was sitting on the horse, and all the birds were gorged with their flesh. As can be seen the angel in the foreground is depicted with eagles wings. that Lot left Sodom, it rained fire and sulfur from heaven and Time will tell! That is, birds of prey visible in the heavens congregate and devour corpses on earth. A very important study that also explains this illustration is, Seven Signs of Christs Second Coming.. the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, 34 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. We are not to return evil for their evil that will come out of their mouths as we leave their company. I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. The word "men" is not in the text, it is only, "there shall be two in one bed"; and may as well be understood of a man and his wife, since it is not so usual for two men to lie in one bed; and this the rather more strongly expresses the distinguishing providence of God in saving one, and suffering the other to be taken and lost: the words may be rendered, "there shall be two upon one couch": that is, sitting together at supper, which was also in the night season: it was the custom of the ancients to sit upon beds, or couches, at meals; and they had a bed, or couch, which held two persons only, and was called Biclinium (h): and so this likewise intimates, that the destruction of the Jews would be at a time when they were thoughtless of it, and were eating and drinking, as in the days of Noah and of Lot, Luke 17:27. It is quite clear that both scriptures are about the same event and that it is related to the warnings of the end of the age and the Lords return. Real Questions. out of the way. Your answer could be improved with additional supporting information. He is speaking to Israel about the signs of the end of the age and His coming. But, we must also "Arise up" and get outjust as Lot was commanded to do. together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, Right now the kingdom of God is within the hearts of people, but then--whenever then is--the Kingdom of God will come in spectacular fashion to bring about "the end of the age.". In Luke 17:34 Jesus says, I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Those whom Jesus said would be left would be those who heeded the warning and fled to the mountains. One will be taken and the other left. Therefore, it is implied that the two are women. It has come to my attention, and as I understand it, that those who insist that the rapture verses of Matthew 24:40-41 and Luke 17:34-36 are, in their opinion, a judgment of the unsaved, are saying that the Greek word "paralambn" - as found in another passage of Scripture - can carry the connotation of judgment. Our aim is to share the Word and be true to it. Many will resist what He has to say with a multitude of evil words that will fly out of their mouths into the "air". But he seemed as one that At that height the eagles have perfect vision and can see a mouse on the ground and we too will have perfect vision, we will understand how all the way the Lord has led us. But Luke 17:35 is much more clear. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. Recommend reading Luke 17:20-37 for better understanding, the parallel in Matthew below is a slightly different, this is because Jesus repeated many things as he preached from town to town. There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken and the other will be left. Below you will see three different translations of the original Greek Koine. pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe. 24 answer, and I originally didn't see the Luke 17 answer on CSE. Because Jesus Christ is the spotless Lamb of God who took away the sins of the world (John 1:29-34) by dying upon the cross, being buried and rising again as He promised (Matthew 16:21-23, 17:22-23; Mark 8:31-33, 9:30-32; Luke 9:21-22, 18:31-34), we now possess through Him the hope and reality of our own resurrection. You have to change eagles into vultures and the body into a carcass. me no more; (11) Of judgment, because the prince of this world is together", 37 "Then[a] the disciples[b] said[c] to him, Where,[d] Lord? He